Keyboard settings for Serbian (SOLVED) - Locale settings (We're on it!)

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Keyboard settings for Serbian (SOLVED) - Locale settings (We're on it!)

Griot
This post was updated on .
Ok, I'll 'break the ice'.

I have a problem with language settings. In system settings I've selected 'sr_RS@latin' but system didn't recognize it correctly after X restart. It keeps pushing with 'sr_RS' which is Serbian with Cyrillic letters.
Well, the problem is that there is no Serbian_Cyrillic keyboard to choose from the keyboard menu. I'm using Croatian/Latin keyboard, which is fine for translating to Serbian/Latin but it's not useful for Cyrillic letters.
I'm intent on translating Puppy to Serbian using both writing systems, because we use it equally at daily basis
and we treat them with same respect at schools.

Would you guys be so kind to help me solve this neat little puzzle?
Thanks. I'm signing out for today.
'Night.

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Re: all solutions start with a problem

L18L
Hello Icebreaker ,

which of the many Puppies do you use?

My first step trying to help would be installing your version.


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Re: all solutions start with a problem

Griot
Hello, L18L.

My PC is running Precise 5.71/PAE kernel, save2dir option (instead of save file), with devx_precise_5.7.1.sfs loaded.

Funny thing is that I can see both versions in some files (Latin/Cyrillic) or just Cyrillic in other files.
Does it suppose to look like this?




Examples with Cyrillic only letters.



Then it reads this...



...but it looks like a comment is already there:



Well, I'm confused.

Thanks.







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Re: all solutions start with a problem

L18L
Griot wrote
Well, I'm confused.
Yes this
PLEASE INSERT...
seems to be a bug,  Puppy's fault. Might occur with sr only .....

But the other things are OK:
These data in tuxpaint and planner are made by tuxpaint or planner.
Reading is no problem if font can display the UTF8 characters...

I will look what I can do in precise 571 tomorrow.

I suggest you try to use a virtual keyboard
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/xvkbd


@Bert, should this be threaded ? Can you ? Help
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Re: Problems after selecting settings for Serbian

Griot
Thanks, mate. Your help is much appreciated.
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Re: Problems after selecting settings for Serbian

L18L
@Bert, t hanks for moving to a thread of its own.

@Griot. добро јутро.
Startet my Precise 5.7.1  pfix=ram and tried to make locale sr_SR@latin.
Does not work as you reported.

Looked into /usr/sbin/quicksetup and found the culprit around line 1139 :
LANGCHOICE="`echo -n "$COMBO_LOCALE" | cut -f 1 -d ' ' | cut -f 1 -d '@'`" #nl_BE@euro, need to chop.
nl_BE is Bert's locale
Nobody needs @euro if using utf8.
But that code has chopped each @ that is @latin  has been chopped !
Change it to look like:

 #LANGCHOICE="`echo -n "$COMBO_LOCALE" | cut -f 1 -d ' ' | cut -f 1 -d '@'`" #nl_BE@euro, need to chop.
 LANGCHOICE="`echo -n ${COMBO_LOCALE//@euro/} | cut -f 1 -d ' '`" #all @euro chopped. #150227

.... and locale sr_SR@latin can be activated.

But it is really not very active!
I have been trying to get some apps in sr without success.
Example: gparted

# ls /usr/share/locale/sr_RS@latin/LC_MESSAGES/gparted.mo
/usr/share/locale/sr_RS@latin/LC_MESSAGES/gparted.mo
#
# LANGUAGE=sr_RS@latin gparted

(process:6367): Gtk-WARNING **: Locale not supported by C library.
        Using the fallback 'C' locale.
======================
libparted : 3.1
======================

Search on the web  for "sr@latin glibc-locale" gave me no solution.

Question:
Are you able to run sr_RS@latin in another distro?
If yes Puppy should also be made to do it .....

Добар дан



#150227 enable sr_SR@latin, chop all @euro from LANGCHOICE (should be eliminated from SUPPORTED too)
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Re: Problems after selecting settings for Serbian

Griot
This post was updated on .
Guten morgen, L18L.

Am I hoodoo or what? I've had a feeling something bad is going to happen.

I got same result (error)  after editing /usr/sbin/quicksetup  script.  
*Backed up original, just in case something else goes wrong.

# LANGUAGE=sr_RS@latin gparted

(process:6367): Gtk-WARNING **: Locale not supported by C library.
        Using the fallback 'C' locale.
======================
libparted : 3.1
======================

Though, it didn't happened before I changed script and while using sr_RS option.
Then again, after editing script and switching to sr_RS@latin, some menu entries (those with a translation)
and (e.g.) menus in Opera, appeared with Cyrillic letters, not Latin.  

Next...

L18L wrote
#150227 enable sr_SR@latin, chop all @euro from LANGCHOICE (should be eliminated from SUPPORTED too)
Sorry, I don't understand this. What should I do? Change all LANGCHOICE and SUPPORTED lines within the script (/usr/sbin/quicksetup) to look like the one you described?
Like this? LANGCHOICE="`echo -n ${COMBO_LOCALE//@euro/} | cut -f 1 -d ' '`" #all @euro chopped. #150227

L18L wrote
Question:
Are you able to run sr_RS@latin in another distro?
If yes Puppy should also be made to do it .....
No, I'm not using ANY other distro. I've tried just a few, but never used language options other than English.
Would it make any difference if I try with other Puppy flavor, say Lucid? I have Sulu2 frugally installed.
It's a 'fresh' install. I only added Opera 12.16.pet.
Note: I think I have some older Debian on a DVD, I'll give it a try later today.


Schönen Tag noch!

Edit: About 'xvkbd' virtual (graphical) keyboard. I guess this version for Lucid 5.2x is suitable for Precise?
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=37194&sid=cbad8118fecb63ccaca6745969281106
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Re: Problems after selecting settings for Serbian

L18L
Griot wrote
(process:6367): Gtk-WARNING **: Locale not supported by C library.
        Using the fallback 'C' locale.
That is just  a warning. No translation is used.

Griot wrote
L18L wrote
#150227 enable sr_SR@latin, chop all @euro from LANGCHOICE (should be eliminated from SUPPORTED too)
Sorry, I don't understand this. What should I do?
 
Nothing.
SUPPORTED is a file in /usr/share/i18n which states that e.g. de_DE@euro is supported.
As utf8 is supporting many things inclusive the symbol for EUR currency this is not needed, just my opinion. Again: Nothing to do for you.

Griot wrote
No, I'm not using ANY other distro. I've tried just a few, but never used language options other than English.
Would it make any difference if I try with other Puppy flavor, say Lucid? I have Sulu2 frugally installed.
It's a 'fresh' install. I only added Opera 12.16.pet.
Note: I think I have some older Debian on a DVD, I'll give it a try later today.
At the moment I am looking into latest Quirky7: ConfigureXkb Layout: srp Serbian
Activate --> An error occured.

But I have hope for Debian.

xvkbd try and see.
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Re: Problems after selecting settings for Serbian

Griot
This post was updated on .
OK, thanks for the tips.

Still confused a bit, but I'll get to grips with it, sooner or later.

PLEASE NOTE! There are two .deb packages at the Precise Main repo, called 'language-pack-sr-base_12.04+20140106_all.deb' and 'anguage-pack-sr-_12.04+20140106_all.deb' with the description like 'translation updates for language Serbian'.
Maybe they can be useful?

Cheers!
G
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Re: Problems after selecting settings for Serbian

L18L
Griot wrote
PLEASE NOTE! There are two .deb packages at the Precise Main repo, called 'language-pack-sr-base_12.04+20140106_all.deb' and 'anguage-pack-sr-_12.04+20140106_all.deb' with the description like 'translation updates for language Serbian'.
You might download them, look what is inside then decide what is useful.
For lookinsude inside use console command undeb.

go to your download folder open a terminal there and type
undeb *
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Re: Problems after selecting settings for Serbian

L18L
Found this online service:
http://gate2home.com/Serbian-Keyboard

.. and it translation service
http://gate2home.com/English-Keyboard/Translate#lang=sr&t=hello

useful ?  (for other languages also)
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Re: Problems after selecting settings for Serbian

L18L
This post was updated on .
... solved in another Linux distribution

# 
# setxkbmap de
# setxkbmap rs
# љњертзуиопшђ
sh: $'\321\231\321\232\320\265\321\200\321\202\320\267\321\203\320\270\320\276\320\277\321\210\321\222': Kommando nicht gefunden.
# асдфгхјклчћж
sh: $'\320\260\321\201\320\264\321\204\320\263\321\205\321\230\320\272\320\273\321\207\321\233\320\266': Kommando nicht gefunden.
# жџцвбнм,.-
sh: $'\320\266\321\237\321\206\320\262\320\261\320\275\320\274,.-': Kommando nicht gefunden.
# 
# setxkbmap de
# #That's it using Fatdog
# 
# 


  yz              rs: Serbian (Cyrillic, Z and ZHE swapped)
  latin           rs: Serbian (Latin)
  latinunicode    rs: Serbian (Latin Unicode)
  latinyz         rs: Serbian (Latin qwerty)
  latinunicodeyz  rs: Serbian (Latin Unicode qwerty)
  alternatequotes rs: Serbian (Cyrillic with guillemets)
  latinalternatequotes rs: Serbian (Latin with guillemets)



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Re: Problems after selecting settings for Serbian

Griot
Danke, L18L. I appreciate your help & tips.

L18L wrote
... solved in another Linux distribution

#
# setxkbmap de
# setxkbmap rs
# љњертзуиопшђ
sh: $'\321\231\321\232\320\265\321\200\321\202\320\267\321\203\320\270\320\276\320\277\321\210\321\222': Kommando nicht gefunden.
# асдфгхјклчћж
sh: $'\320\260\321\201\320\264\321\204\320\263\321\205\321\230\320\272\320\273\321\207\321\233\320\266': Kommando nicht gefunden.
# жџцвбнм,.-
sh: $'\320\266\321\237\321\206\320\262\320\261\320\275\320\274,.-': Kommando nicht gefunden.
#
# setxkbmap de
# #That's it using Fatdog

Now I'm confused even more. Is this a workable solution for all puppies, including Precise 5.71?

Please consider that I'm using outdated PC with single core AMD Athlon@1.8GHz (barely capable of anything, except PAE), 1GB+RAM, old Nvidia Gforce4-MX 4/AGP...AND I'm a noob on Linux with just a 5-6 months of experience. Believe me, my head sometimes spins for hours after reading through forum and Puppy documentation, looking for a simple(?) solution.  

Although, I can follow any instructions written in simple English, including
instructions for editing system files/scripts etc.

If this is not a problem for you, please explain what am I supposed to do with these lines.
Thank you.
G


 
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Re: Problems after selecting settings for Serbian

L18L
This post was updated on .
Griot wrote
If this is not a problem for you, please explain what am I supposed to do with these lines.
No problem.

You could have also tried to use the command setxkbmap.

I am posting now from Puppy Precise 5.7.1

My keymap is de.

Set it to Serbian

добп

анд бацк то Герман

Use (type it into a console and press Enter key)
setxkbmap sr

добрo бече

I have typed these word, not copied from translate.*.de

In Fatdog  use setxkbmap=rs
In Quirky7 April   use setxkbmap=rs
In Puppy Precise  5.7.1 use setxkbmap=sr

---
EDITED last 3 lines after test in Quirky
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Re: Problems after selecting settings for Serbian

L18L
This post was updated on .
L18L wrote
Griot wrote
If this is not a problem for you, please explain what am I supposed to do with these lines.
No problem.

You could have also tried to use the command setxkbmap.

I am posting now from Puppy Precise 5.7.1

My keymap is de.
My keymap is stored in file /etc/keymap.
I do not know your actual keymap.
Look into your file /etc/keymap.
Let us assume it is en.

Open a console.
Type in:
setxkbmap en
and press Enter key.

Open any other app or geany or another console and type anything. It is en. anything

Go to the first console where you had typed in: setxkbmap en
Now type:
setxkbmap=sr
and press Enter key.

Go to the other app or geany or another console and type anything. It is sr. анжтхинг

Back to en?
Go to the first console where you had typed in: setxkbmap en

You cannot type
setxkbmap en
here because it is sr and would look like
сетџкбмап=ен

But you can launch last command which was:  setxkbmap en
simply by pressing arrow Up key
then press Enter key and everything you type in in any app is en again.

Hope that helps you to start translating.
Please report success or failure.

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Re: Problems after selecting settings for Serbian

L18L
BarryK on http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=97897&start=61 wrote:
-------
Download the attached, place in /lib/keymaps, then delete this file:

/var/local/quickset-keyboard-list

Then run quicksetup:

# quicksetup

...choose "srp"

...anyone who knows Serbian, let me know if this works!

------

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Re: Problems after selecting settings for Serbian

Griot
Guten Tag, L18L.

Thank you very much for your help and efforts in solving this problem!

Unfortunately, I'm getting partial success after trying to follow yours and Berry's instructions.

GOOD After extracting srp.gz and deleting said file, I have an option to choose Serbian keyboard from the Quicksetup menu. (srp Serbian)
BAD This invokes Serbian Cyrillic keyboard, which results in totally non-responsive console. 
Geany is doing fine with this option (probably other text/office editors would) but that's a bummer, unless I intent to type some text in Serbian using Cyrillic, e,g. translating. For any other purpose it is completely useless.

I tried the trick with two terminals opened, switching back and forth between them and pasting 'setxkbmap en' and 'setxkbmap sr' but it spits out this error.



My current /lib/keymaps and /etc/X11/xkb/symbols/pc/ dirs look like this.



My current language/keyboard settings are like this. (I switched back to Croatian/Latin keybord for this session)
PLEASE NOTE that my country option is set to 'sr_RS@latin Srpski' which adds EVEN MORE CONFUSION to not only me (at the moment), but would also spin any potential user head.



I'm looking forward to solve this issues with you and Barry and once and for all clear this mess with
several choices for Serbian language/keyboard. There are two more options for Serbian in country settings, reading 'sr_RS Srpski' (which invokes some menus to appear with Cyrillic translation) and 'sr_ME Srpski' (I didn't test it yet).

Based on my current impressions about this problem, I propose this as a (part) of a workable solution.

When user boots Puppy for the first time, it should offer 'sr_RS - Srpski (Latin)' keyboard as a default option for Serbian users  BUT with the tooltip/pop up window  saying that s/he CAN later switch to e.g. 'sr_RS - Srpski (Cyrillic)' keymap if she/he want to type some text using that letters. If s/he wants to use terminal commands, edit scripts and similar tasks, then the tool tip should briefly explain 'How to'.
Just my two cents.

I know this is one looong and kind of annoying post (I'm a real PITA? )
but it would benefit users AND translators in the future.

Thanks again for everything.
Griot
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Re: Problems after selecting settings for Serbian

L18L
Griot wrote
GOOD.....
 BarryK's idea and work.

Griot wrote
BAD This invokes Serbian Cyrillic keyboard, which results in totally non-responsive console....I tried the trick with two terminals opened, switching back and forth between them and pasting 'setxkbmap en' and 'setxkbmap sr' but it spits out this error.
My fault or your fault.
I do not know what your original keymap was.
The en in my advice was just a (not valid) example.

en is no keymap.
cr is no keymap.

Why  not use  the new
setxkbmap srp
?

My way of making much use of console  might not be the best  for you.

You can always use
 menu > Setup > Mouse/Keyboard wizard  > Advanced Xorg....
There you can change keymap
or
add keymap
...and use the button for variant (I have seen srp:Latin there    )

For switch between keymaps see http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HowToChangeAddKeyboardLayout please.


 
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Re: Problems after selecting settings for Serbian

Griot
This post was updated on .
Hello, L18L.

Thanks for a swift response.

L18L wrote
My fault or your fault.
The en in my advice was just a (not valid) example.
en is no keymap.
cr is no keymap.
Probably mine. I wasn't aware of this.

L18L wrote
Why  not use  the new
setxkbmap srp?
 Will use this, since it's pretty easy way to switch keymap.

L18L wrote
My way of making much use of console  might not be the best  for you.
 
TRUE.

L18L wrote
You can always use
 menu > Setup > Mouse/Keyboard wizard  > Advanced Xorg....
There you can change keymap
or
add keymap
...and use the button for variant (I have seen srp:Latin there    )
Now I feel like a complete idiot! I thought that option is the same as lang/keyboard in Quick setup. Never bothered to check it out. Please, shoot me!

L18L wrote
For switch between keymaps see
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HowToChangeAddKeyboardLayout please.
Ah, the forgotten art of careful reading. Shoot again!

Thanks, mate. I'll try this and see what's happening in 'my version' of Precise. Seem to be quirky dog lately.

Godspeed!
G

EDIT: 22:24 CET

YES! YES ! YES! It works! 

This...
L18L wrote
You can always use Menu > Setup > Mouse/Keyboard wizard  > Advanced Xorg....There you can change keymap or add keymap
...and use the button for variant (I have seen srp:Latin there   )
 was essential.

True, there are few variants for Serbian and I've chosen 2nd option 'latin = srp.Latin'. Then, back to console (/etc/keymap was set to croat) and there I typed 'setxkbmap srp' which invoked Cyrillic letters. Cool.
Now, copy/paste into terminal 'setxkbmap srp latin' and the Latin keyboard (qwertz) started.
Soooo cooool! Two simple commands to switch between both keymaps needed.
 
 DANKE, DANKE, DANKE, L18L!!!

Here, you deserved a beer! More, maybe?!?!   

Just chim in here to confirm that you have read this and I'll add 'SOLVED' to a topic subject.


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Re: Problems after selecting settings for Serbian

L18L
This post was updated on .
No reason to feel like an idiot!
 
Griot wrote
Probably mine. I wasn't aware of this.
 So was I. I was only thinking that en is English, not testing. Now I know codes can be seen in file /etc/X11/xkb/rules/base.lst.  
 
Griot wrote
Soooo cooool! Two simple commands to switch between both keymaps needed.
Now you are ready to learn the next console feature:
To repeat commands you are N OT forced to type or copy the command again. Simply use the keybord key "UP" to get last used command. (... you might also have a look into hidden file $HOME/.history)
 
Griot wrote
Just chim in here to confirm that you have read this and I'll add 'SOLVED' to a topic subject.
SOLVED sounds GOOD.
But I think it is just the keyboard problem solved.
I suggest you change the title to anything with "keyboard" and SOLVED.
We will see in another new thread if there will problems arise with getting translations...

Thank you for your direct response at the forum
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=97897&start=68 .
 Great!
 
Griot wrote
Here, you deserved a beer! More, maybe?!?!   
Yes of course
more beer.
beer for the entire Puppy Translators Team and for our PuppyMaster Barry.
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